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Get a grip (40,146) by Zachary from Croatia You guys crack me up. Career over? Mariah's voice is over? Please. What do you fucking expect, that she is a voice robot with a coin slit to put and to make her perform flawless? Please. I am ashamed of some of you. (Monday 9 December 2013; 19:18)

Mariah is not pefect (40,145) by Brad Catoe from United States Also the New York performance was really amazing. I was impressed, especially with how cold it was. Sometimes this board get really critical and hateful. Mariah's career over with? I don't think so. I hope she doesn't read this board because I think there are way more lambs than not who think she sounds fabulous. Does anybody remember her performance of AIWFCIY last year in New York? I thought it was one of the best in her career. I think it's human nature to see the negative in things. Also people who have negative things are mire vocal by nature. I hope Mariah knows that there are many who still love her voice. I have a friend who always says Mariah on her worst day sounds better than anyone else out there and I agree. I'm just glad at this point in her career she is still invited all over the world to sing. (Monday 9 December 2013; 17:29)

Re: Licia (40,144) by Billy from Greece Hi there. Could please let me know where you got your profile photo from? It's awesome! (Monday 9 December 2013; 15:57)

Re: Paul (40,143) by Billy from Greece "O come all ye faithful" Christmas in Washington 2010 was fucking epically fantastic. What wrong did you find in that performance? (Monday 9 December 2013; 15:32)

It was a rough performance (DC tree lighting) (40,142) by Deedre aka MiTodoChop @HBF from Canada No denying that, but as Licia said, she knows it was not her finest hour. What's done is done. I'm positive she feels bad about it and is embarrassed. I think talk of retirement is taking things too far. True, she's not 1990 Mariah anymore, but I disagree that The Rockefeller Center performance can also be considered rough. I thought she was fantastic, and she's still one of the only singers on the planet who can sound like a studio recording or better live (when her vocal is on point). (Monday 9 December 2013; 15:23)

Jaker20 (40,141) by Licia from USA It's easy for you to say she needs to stay away from singing older songs, but you and I both know she can't do that. She not only has to find ways to bring in new fans, but she still has to somehow appease the older fans as well. I enjoy when she breaks out the old stuff. When she doesn't try to sing like 20 year old Mariah and adjusts the songs to where 43 year old Mariah with her current vocal state can sing, she does a great job. Anyway that last performance was bad. I have no idea what went wrong. I'm not going to pretend to know or assume anything. Nobody knows whether she drank before the performance. All these theories are pointless unless you were. It was just bad and she knows it was bad. End of story. (Monday 9 December 2013; 14:52)

MC still rocks! (40,140) by Lainsky from Philippines After watching those performances of JTTW and AIWFCIY at the Rockefeller Christmas tree lighting, I can say that Mariah still rocks it. So to all who are saying that her voice and music career is over, I guess you have to wake up. For as long as the world celebrates Christmas, she will be around with these classic songs, whether live or on radio. Again, she has nothing to prove anymore for she has proven herself already thus, with or without a new album coming, she is still very much in the scene. Besides, only few artist can manage to stay that long like her in the entertainment industry and I can say that MC is still too young to retire and say "it's over". Without her, music industry will never be the same. Common guys, she's really good. Admit it. (Monday 9 December 2013; 11:25)

AIWFCIY In washington performance (40,139) by Paul from Usa I just watched the performance. I actually live in Washington and was going to take my chances and listen to go performance or possibly get in, but the weather really took a turn for the worse that day. It was about 30 degrees and damp, pouring rain all day. I wonder if that had an effect on her voice. Also I've noticed, each time Mariah performs in front of the president, or any other person she looks up to, she somehow screws up. "Chain of fools" Divas Live 98 "Medley" with Diana Ross, Divas 2000 "O come all ye faithful" Christmas in Washington 2010 And there are others. Do you guys wonder if she's just bored, and not passionate about music anymore? Everyone gets bored with their jobs, no matter how much they like it. But sometimes the stuff that comes out of her mouth is so strange and awkward (ie the end of this performance, and her latest appearance on Jimmy Fallon, HSN). I wonder what's going on through her mind sometimes. She's definitely not the same Mariah she was in her earlier days. It's great to have a bit of fun, but sometimes you need to buckle down and be a adult. I wonder if she ever watches her appearances and performances? She's lost all the special perfectionist touches. (Monday 9 December 2013; 11:17)

Retirement (40,138) by jaker20 from US I don't think retirement is the answer. The answer is for her to adapt to the new times. Adapting doesn't necessarily mean changing yourself to something you are not. Look at Christina, her Say Something collab is doing very well which is not a belt song. MC should do the same, ie expand her art, work with new artist, collaborate, and most importantly, stop singing those high notes that are so old-fashioned and makes you belt or do high notes. Sure they are "impressive" notes, sure that is her brand, but they are also corny and old fashioned. She is not the same, and she has to recognize this and rebrand herself soon, otherwise this is it for her. #Beautiful was a great start, but she and her label ruined the promo of that song. Some of you may say AIWFCIY isn't really a belt song, that's not true. Halfway through the song she sings in a higher key and it stays there. She did well with Fallon, because it's acapella and a small room. But outdoors and with a band, her voice is drowned. She needs to create new songs that support the current state of her voice. (Monday 9 December 2013; 9:39)

Yeah that performance was rough (40,137) by jaker20 from US I can't watch MC like that. I just can't. This is what I have been telling you guys all along. MC is stuck with her old fans, her old self, and her old discography. She needs new fans, new songs. Singing older songs forces her voice to a level where it isn't anymore. And she should avoid the big open air stage. It never suited her voice, even during her peak. Her voice is not the same. It's not. A few weeks ago I said why did MC sing on Idol all those oldies/medleys from 20 years ago that she can't hardly sing as well? And I got attacked. I said many times, just sing songs that is current to your voice. If she had sang #Beautiful only and only that song, it would be all live and she's not straining her voice because she arranged and composed it to her current voice state. I really think that was a turning point for her. Now she's got it in her mind that if she lips she's going to get attacked. She basically outer herself in the big stage. Basically. (Monday 9 December 2013; 9:24)

Mariah is over... for the 100th time (40,136) by Matthew from USA The thing I have learned with Mariah is this: never count her out. I can't tell you guys how many times I've done just that. She always disappoints me, and then I give up. And then I say it's over. Her voice is gone. And then of course, she pulls some amazing performance out of the bag and then she has me back again. It's like a roller coaster. So I think this time I'm just going to wait and see. Mimi performances have always been erratic. People are always counting her out. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that Mariah is over. She finished. She's done. She was done after the divorce. She was done after Glitter. She was over after E=MC2. Lol. I honestly believe she'll be doing her little thing when she is in her 60's like Patty and Aretha. Will it be the voice of a 20 year old Mariah? Nope. But as long as the music is in her, she'll keep on keeping on. It's one of the things I admire about Mimi. She perseveres. (Monday 9 December 2013; 7:52)

Do you think this is substandard? (40,135) by Billy from Greece (Monday 9 December 2013; 7:45)

AIWFC (40,134) by Chase from USA I didn't think the performance was that bad. She sounded pretty much the way she's sounded on most televised performances in the past several years. It was a fair performance. I think 2008-2009 was a really bad period for her vocally, and the National Tree Lighting was not anywhere near that level of rough. If you're expecting her to perform the way she did in the nineties, it ain't happening. Those days are long gone. I'm happy she continues to perform for us, though I do get nervous for her. (Monday 9 December 2013; 5:38)

Her voice (40,133) by Lyric from USA I'm starting to prefer lip synced performances over her singing live. The performance was dreadful and I see lambs are pulling out the ridiculous excuses. This is a woman who invests more time in perfecting her hair and wardrobe for the stage, so why would her vocals sound good if they aren't the priority? Her vibrato is practically nonexistent, her voice sounds dry and cracked, and can she really rely on the whistles any longer? People should keep their expectations of her performances low. The question now is, can Mariah's voice be rejuvenated and repaired... or is it damaged for long term? Regardless, her current standing does not tarnish her legacy and there is always a possibility than she can improve. I just hope there's change before the new album is released. (Monday 9 December 2013; 4:29)

My time with Mariah (40,132) by nikki from usa I remember the first time I met Mariah at a signing in 2002. She sang live for the Today Show and sounded great. She showed up later in the evening wearing a black evening gown. She sat down and actually took time to talk to each individual fan. The bodyguards were trying to toss people through the line to the point of man handling them. The second a fan said, "hi" to her they damn near yanked them out. Each time a guard did that Mariah called a halt and made the guard bring the fan back so she could have one on one time with each fan for a full minute. She got up a few times to give some of them hugs. I'm talking full on bear hugs too. I never pegged Mariah for a bear hugger. In the late 90's people were saying she lost her voice, but I went to her Rainbow tour and her vocals were great. Then, people complained in the early 2000's again. Until, her 2002 CB tour where everyone and their sister gushed over her vocals. Then, her voice was "shot" again. In spite of a cold, she went on with her first show in Cali for The Adventures tour and again the "horror of her voice". The following week I saw her live in Tampa and there wasn't anything wrong with her voice. It was phenomenal. She ad-libbed, talked with the fans, and sang up a storm. They should've taped it. I've seen the performances on the net, read everyone's comments, and I've heard her live in person myself enough over the years to know people will always be shocked by the resurrection of "the voice". (Monday 9 December 2013; 3:45)

Re: Marc Charles (40,131) by nikki from usa Very detailed. The only question I have is, you mentioned the deterioration over the years through MOAIA, but Merry Christmas II You had some of the best MC vocals ever. Her live performances were off the hook. Not to mention, she was pregnant. I didn't hear this last performance, but I heard the ones she did at Rockefeller and they were awesome. I loved those vocals. So, why does yet again, another performance, a couple days later change everything so drastically? Mariah's an insomniac who's a workaholic. Add kids and mix. I think it's insane to expect her to sound like she's 20. It's normal to expect some wear and tear, but the point is "some". Everyone obsesses over her less stellar performances, but ignore the good ones while they drama queen (no, I'm not referring to you here). The Carlyle performance was only last year. Her 4th of July performances was just 6 months ago and she did great at Rockefeller Center a few days ago. (Monday 9 December 2013; 3:14)

Re: Lamby from HongKong (40,130) by Terna from Nigeria Your post really struck a chord with me, kinda mirroring everything I have been feeling about her latetly. I've been a lamb since I was in my early teens and the Mariah I fell in love with is just not the one I see today. I'm losing faith in her talent and interest also. Something indeed changed her, maybe Tommy Mottola. But I also agree "he was a great filter". I recall he was even the one who encouraged her to keep "Hero" for herself. A song that can now be considered her signature song, and with Tommy still in the picture, such crap like "Triumphant" where you're featured on your own song never saw the light of day. He may have been controlling, but that man knew his job. (Monday 9 December 2013; 2:31)

It is what it is (40,129) by Will from Australia Considering Mariah did minimal promotional performances of AIWFCIY from 1995 - 2009 it's obvious that she's grasping onto the only thing that keeps her topical, which is Christmas, by committing to way too many public performances that have left her voice shattered. The tree lighting performance is the worst performance I've ever heard from her, a million times worse than MJ's memorial and I'm sad for her. But hey, she'll move on from it and so must we. Talking about retirement is ridiculous, I just watched her in Sydney less than a year ago and she was amazing and surprised me. This site is for debating so I'd wish the know it alls would just let people give their opinion without getting their backs up, let it go. (Monday 9 December 2013; 1:07)

[...] (40,128) by Tony from Ireland I agree, we are human beings and none of us is perfect. When she was about to release TAOLG, she did said that the song was written in a way that everybody could related with it. Negativity? Where? She is singing about letting the pain and bad memories go. And c'mon, all of us are grown-up and we are no longer dying to find a dream lover, or some can feel tired to give them all to somebody, as the years gone by, we all want to find the way to real love, to real emotions. I do think Mariah has been writing some of her more realistic and down to earth songs, I'm still remember how she brought me to tears with Inseparable,or how TAOLG was touching my soul in so many different ways. Mariah is a mean person. Mariah has been negative. [...] I just have to recognize how disgusted I feel knowing that some people can think like that about her. And no, I don't know her personally, but I do know what lots of artist says about her, and I do love her. Amazing voice, amazing personality, funny and she [...]. (Monday 9 December 2013; 1:00)

Mariah's voice (40,127) by Marc Charles from UK A lot of people are questioning Mariah's voice. So I'll put what I think has happened as I know a lot about the voice and how it works etc. Her way of singing is [...] demanding on the vocal chords. After 22+ years of singing ofcourse it's going to change and what has almost certainly happened is that her voice has buckled (plus other factors). Buckling affects mostly the control and [...] much the belting side of things. When a voice buckles it becomes [...] harder to control as the two vocal folds have had extreme pressure over the years. Belting (especially high belts) after a while bend the vocal folds where the tissue cant regenerate its elasticity. When you get older it naturally becomes weaker and that's just to a normal voice, happens to everyone. (Hence why old people when they speak or sing it's very wobbly.) But Mariah has pushed her voice much, it's happening while she's in her 40's. Also when a woman becomes pregnant, the voice changes like it changes when puberty occurs. Not so much as that but it becomes weaker. So this, plus her nodules, play a part in its current condition. It's irreversible. Plus on top of that, when a singer is on vocal rest, it's healthier for a singer to speak very quiet and actually use the chords than it is to whisper and not use them. Air being pushed through the chords while not vibrating can damage them in the long term (whispering/breathy singing a lot will make the voice hoarse as it drys the vocal chords while pushing though them). But Mariah and her whistle notes/breathy singing are exactly that. The whistles cause a ton of pressure on the chords and muscles. So all these factors come together in the long run and caused the damage. The voice is very very tough. but it will come to an end. And with the amount Mariah has done, just think about all those live performances, her style, the singing in the studio, the re-takes, talking, shouting, whistling etc etc it's inevitable. The only thing she can do to get something back is surgery, which is by far the last option as it's all or nothing. It could completely remove the whistle and the tone could completely change if the muscles are tightened. But would you risk that? Also when is the point where it will be the only option as the voice just isn't there any more. Yeah you can go on vocal rest for a ton of time, but that will make it sound okay and have better resonance and control for a short period. But that will only last until it's tired again. It will get tired [...] fast compared to her previous recovery time. But it won't help the belts as the muscles won't re elasticize. I love her. and got into the knowledge on the voice because I was [...] by how hers worked. I saw this coming after TEOM, the voice was still strong (vocal folds were still strong when healthy), then E=MC2 live performances were where it really started to deteriorate. MOAIA was the final cut. (Belt voice I'm talking mostly on.) Some people say she went down hill since 2000's, but only one or two areas of damage was there. Now all of the damage has come together. Now you notice even under studio fixs Mariah's songs in the studio are heavily edited. Tones of the belts and the runs sound very different to the TEOM and E=MC2. That part is just my opinion as I've got a sharp ear. Maybe you notice. Maybe you don't. But after I've said all this, I fully mean when I say I love her. I love her. Mariah will always be number one in my book as after all this time. I admire [...] she's done. So nothings changed for me. I'm just happy her art is here. (Monday 9 December 2013; 0:41)

Lee from the UK (40,124) by Lamb_O_Chop from Australia Sweetheart, people are not "making excuses". MC didn't just forget how to sing, so evidently something or somethings have affected her voice. And yes nodules, alcohol consumption, the weather, over singing etc. are all factual factors that affect the condition of the voice. MC always had a sensitive voice, and many of her peers have suffered from vocal nodules and were fortunate enough to have them successfully removed. None of us know what she's going through in this issue so it is not fair to blast her for something that may be out of her control at this point. Mariah is not a robot, she's human and last time I checked humans weren't perfect. (Sunday 8 December 2013; 23:34)

AIWFCIY performance (40,123) by Ms. Giselle from USA It wasn't that bad. It wasn't that great either. Someone mentioned her Rockefeller performance was bad. You my dear need your ears cleaned. Both performances were amazing. Even non die hard fans liked it. I believe the problem is, she performed earlier in the week, Now she performed again. Plus she's probably in the studio. her voice needs proper rest and she needs to really give up the bubbly. I know I say that a lot, but it's true. People don't realize wine etc isn't good on your voice. I also think she should do more of a Babs kind of route. She hardly ever does one off performances. I think the Rockefeller should have been enough for the season. Plus she did the Buble concert coming up. I don't get all these performances. If I were her, I take from today to summer/fall 2014 off. Rest up and do some soul searching. I love TAOLG, but marriage and kids should have had more of an effect on her writing. Why is she still singing about letting go of the "ex"? (Sunday 8 December 2013; 23:26)

Losing love for MC (40,122) by Lamby from Hong Kong I've been the biggest fan for almost 20 years. I feel so sad recently. I always had so much hope in MC, I never imagined one day I'd dislike her. Now the songs are always her complaints about someone or some things. I actually feel bad for Mottola. I so eagerly waited for the new single and it's about how she suffered when she was with him. Seriously, it's almost 20 years ago. Tommy is well into his 60s, had 2 new babies and so has Mariah. Listening to yet another song about how bad Tommy treated her in the 1990s, actually makes me think of Mariah as a mean person, as if she wants to extend the hatred to the next generation. The melody is fine, but the lyrics. I heard it once, never want to hear it again as they are so full of negativity. She chose to obey those limitations back then, and to be honest, Tommy was the best thing that happened to MC. He was a great filter, I love the image (hair, clothes, art) he filtered for MC in that era, make her seemed sophisticated. Her own taste in clothes and fashion, I still can't take it, especially the TAOLG cover art, it's horrible. MC is a natural beauty, why can't she deal with her insecurity issues and stop the heavy photoshop? (Sunday 8 December 2013; 21:24)

Re Lee / performances (40,121) by Joe from United Kingdom I have to agree with you on most of what you said, especially the part about later added in whistles or high note back tracks. I'll always support Mariah, but there are times in her live performances where these super high whistles will just make an appearance out of nowhere in a performance and I honestly just think so I wonder when you recorded that one because I have a hard time believing it's live. Whistles alone are not going to save a performance, especially if you're not actually doing them. I am not trying to be really critical, it's just I know Mariah still has a great voice left in her and every [...] she does shows that, but I wish she played to her strengths more when performing live. Leave all the back tracks, 3 takes put together peformances behind. Just you and a piano and arrange how you're going to sing the song in a live setting. She can put a different spin on any of her songs yet still sound great. Just a more relaxed setting rather then be at the mic stand trying or pretending to hit every note. In recent times she's shown she still got it, although it has changed quite abit it's still there. Just my thought. (Sunday 8 December 2013; 21:16)

Mariah's performance (40,120) by Jeff from United States I really didn't see the big of a deal over this performance. When her voice gave off, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Watch Tamar Braxton live on Soul Train Awards earlier this week for some perspective on live performances. Even Ariana Grande in her debut year made a public announcement that she hurt her voice. Adele almost damaged her voice. Mariah held on to her "perfect" vocals for six solid years. For all the criticism on Mariah's personal habits, at least she quit smoking before entering the industry as Adele was not able to. I do feel anxious when hearing Mariah will perform live since you never know how it will turn out. But with twins (when Mariah was single, she had the luxury to sleep for 15 hours in a steam room) and a record label who doesn't care to promote you, Mariah is probably exhausted. The fights behind the scenes will come to light one day and we can look back with more perspective. Remember in 2009 when people complained about her live performances? Mariah did not mention her miscarriage then. The Butterfly era inaugurated Mariah's "vocal decline", but that was the era when she had to fight the most for her ideas. She was up against a board room of executives who wanted to control her. I respect that Mariah stood her ground, but fighting against a corporation is exhausting. Look at Kanye's recent interviews and you'll see the anger artists feel behind the scenes. (Sunday 8 December 2013; 20:21)

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